Daemons... just too lazy to try...

Okay, I've got the new Daemons Codex... now what to do with it?

I've got a game at the FLGS in about an hour, so it seems like a good time to try out the new book.  That said, while I've got a gazillion models, about half a gazillion aren't put together.  I don't want to take on that chore until I have an idea what direction I want to take the list.

To that end, I'm going to put together my old, tournament winning list and see if it's worth a crap now.

Scratch that.  Turns out, the Horrors are in the dip.  I had this vague, partially formed idea that I'd use the smaller, metal Horrors as Blue Horrors to fill out units.  So in the dip they went!

Here's a better idea - I'm going to put together a Chaos Space Marine army with Daemon allies.  I'll be able to try out some new goodies without stretching it too much.  We've not been playing much 40K around these parts, so I'm rusty.

Scratch that.  Except the part about being rusty.  Turns out, without Army Builder to help me kick around lists, I'm forced to resort to...

...creating a spreadsheet to do the work for me.  Can't kick around with a pen and a blank piece of paper anymore.

So I just built a Chaos Space Marine Roster.  Talk about lazy.

* * * 

2000 Pts - Chaos Space Marines Roster - (NICE AND BASIC!)

1 Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour, 142 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 31 & 93); Infantry (Character); Terminator Armour; Mark of Khorne; Power Sword; Power Fist; Bulky; Champion of Chaos; Counter-attack; Fearless; Hatred (Space Marines); Independent Character; Rage; Veterans of the Long War; Warlord)
5 Khorne Berzerkers, 200 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 44 & 98); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Icon of Wrath; Bolt Pistol x3; Close Combat Weapon x5; Plasma Pistol x2; Counter-attack; Fearless; Furious Charge; Furious Charge; Hatred (Space Marines); Mark of Khorne; Rage; Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Berzerker Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 44 & 98); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1; Champion of Chaos; Counter-attack; Fearless; Furious Charge; Hatred (Space Marines); Mark of Khorne; Rage; Veterans of the Long War)
1 Chaos Land Raider, 245 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 55 & 103); Vehicle (Transport); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Daemonic Possession; Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter; Twin-linked Lascannons (each side); Assault Vehicle)

9 Thousand Sons, 265 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 43 & 98); Infantry; Aura of Dark Glory; Inferno Bolts; Power Armour; Boltgun w/ Inferno Bolts x9; Fearless; Hatred (Space Marines); Mark of Tzeentch; Slow and Purposeful; Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Aspiring Sorcerer ((C:CSM, pp. 43 & 98); Infantry (Character); Aura of Dark Glory; Inferno Bolts; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol w/ Inferno Bolts; Force Sword; Champion of Chaos; Fearless; Hatred (Space Marines); Mark of Tzeentch; Psyker (Mastery Level 1); Slow and Purposeful; Veterans of the Long War; Biomancy; Pyromancy; Telepathy; Tzeentch)

9 Chaos Space Marines, 230 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Boltgun x7; Meltagun; Heavy Bolter; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Power Fist x1; Champion of Chaos; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Chaos Rhino ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 99); Vehicle (Transport); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Combi-Boltgun; Repair)

9 Chaos Space Marines, 230 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Boltgun x7; Meltagun; Heavy Bolter; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Power Fist x1; Champion of Chaos; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Chaos Rhino ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 99); Vehicle (Transport); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Combi-Boltgun; Repair)

9 Chaos Space Marines, 245 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Boltgun x7; Plasma gun; Lascannon; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Power Fist x1; Champion of Chaos; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Chaos Rhino ((C:CSM, pp. 54 & 99); Vehicle (Transport); 10 model capacity; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Combi-Boltgun; Repair)

9 Chaos Space Marines, 210 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Boltgun x7; Plasma gun; Lascannon; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
   1 Aspiring Champion ((C:CSM, pp. 37 & 95); Infantry (Character); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Power Fist x1; Champion of Chaos; Hatred (Space Marines); Veterans of the Long War)
1 Aegis Defence Lines, 100 pts (Battlefield Debris (Defence Lines))
   1 Gun Emplacement (Quad-gun)

1 Chaos Vindicator, 130 pts ((C:CSM, pp. 55 & 103); Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armour; Demolisher Cannon)

Daemons 2012 Part IV

After much conversation and not a small bit of stalling, Part IV presents the Strictly Average Daemons 2012 list.

If you're at all interested in the subject, feel free to check out:

Can Daemons Be Updated for 2012??

Daemons 2012 Part II

Daemons 2012 Part III

And from Bell of Lost Souls, the articles that kicked off the Terrible Tuesday series, the Daemonic Primers:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/08/40k-schoolboys-daemonic-primer.html

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/08/40k-middle-schoolboys-daemonic-primer.html

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/08/40k-its-high-school-all-over-again.html

Here's the list; standard caveats apply.

After much consideration, I kept the Skulltaker, largely for his ability against Grey Knights... and that's the toughest matchup for this list...

...with the possible exception of street-sweeper Dark Eldar builds.  The latter is why the Hounds are in groups of eight and there is an extra Crusher, instead of a more MSU approach with groups of five or something.

I love Breath on Heralds of Tzeentch, but with only two and the need to optimize where possible, it doesn't seem viable here.

A possible improvement is including Screamers; you'd have to make those changes I decried two paragraphs ago, but it's possible to fit two groups of three or one of six - something like that.  I don't know that its better, since I don't have much experience with Screamers, but AV 14 has always been the big weakness of Daemons.  With that in mind, it's important to note the Heralds of Khorne are a big part of the anti-mech in this list, due to Furious Charge and Rending.

Another reason for the Skulltaker, 4+ Rending is the bomb!

(But will he build this list?)

I just had a stray thought... am I actually going to build this?  Maybe.  I want to upgrade my army with new models for the Fiends and Horrors, largely because, as the workhorse army of the Strictly Average collection, my painting scores have suffered mightily on the Indy Scene.

Who doesn't love Barney?  Don't answer that...

Adepticon 2011 is a good example of that.  Even with the top battle points finish, the painting score sunk my overall.  Frankly, that's fair; the Fiends have never received more than a basic scheme, and the Horrors are all over the place.  I have the models to update both and add the Crushers.

It's a matter of time and will.

Thoughts?

Daemons 2012 Part III

So what about the Fateweaver?  My view is, "I'm not a fan... but..!"

Let's just get that out of the way now.

* * * 

As most of my longtime readers know, "I'm not a fan."  Since taking on Daemons due to the machinations of Evil Homer in Exile and the Master Manipulator (every store needs one), I've had a few rules of thumb - developed due to hard experience - that served me well...

1. Bolt is a requirement
2. Fiends do the heavy lifting
3. Soul Grinders are a red herring
4. Fateweaver is too inconsistent

My motto is Competitive is Consistent.  I'm not out to win a game - my goal is to win four in a row.

Or more.

* * * 

Interestingly, it's one of those things I have a hard time explaining to the Client Pimp in Question, our local young prodigy-in-training.  There's a world of difference in my standard game and my wanna-win game... but in most of my standard games I'm exploring an idea or concept to test its validity.

Some of that's for this blog or that - such as trying out the Soul Grinders in our last local tournament - but most of it is working out strategies for 'wanna-win' games.  Not that I'm throwing games, but I'm not so invested that I care whether I win or lose.

The Client Pimp..?  He's in a different place.  I'd wager he knows exactly how many games he's won or lost, against whom, and if those were inside a tournament or not!

It's a phase; most of us have been there.  For my part, I no longer have anything to prove.  Frankly, it's the same for most of us at the FLGS...

...sadly, we're most of us firmly in middle age!

(Speak for yourself.)

All that said, that habit of mine has bitten me in the butt on more than one occasion, where I was sort of lackadaisical with a tournament list and was frustrated after getting blown off the board.  On one occasion, the Bugs! were swept by Evil Homer in Exile's Dark Eldar with nary a fight.  On another, more recently, I suffered through a last round matchup against Little Barrera.

And his Dark Eldar.  

* * * 

My thinking on this almost exactly matches Hulk's; check out this post from They Shall Know Know Fear.  He's also exploring Daemons at the moment, just like me and just like Goatboy.   Remember to check out the other blogs in the Read Up To Keep Up roll!

* * * 

"I'm not a fan... but..!"  So ol' Kairos the Fateweaver doesn't pass my primary test for tournament-list inclusion.  He's simply not reliable...

...over four games!  He can be incredible; of that, there's no doubt.  The Fate-Crusher build is rightly feared; if Kairos and the Crushers get the appropriate wave on the board, and if Kairos avoids too many leadership tests, then certainly this is a combo that can roll the board with anyone!

Lot of 'ifs' though.

From Wargamer Hub

In one-third of the games you won't get the Wave you want.  In four games, you have a very strong chance of losing Kairos to a failed Leadership test - and I've had Darkwynn actually run the math on that one!

But!  As a Codex gets older it requires aggressive play, sound strategy, sharp tactics, and a perfectly optimized army list to seize victory for itself.

More than anything, though, you'll need aggressive play:  take the initiative early and force your opponent to play the game on different terms!

As much as it pains me to say this, Kairos can be a route to all of this, making him - in my humble opinion - a more valid choice now than even a year or two ago.  Back then, balance and sharp play yielded better results.  Some of those tools are just no longer available.

(Bye-bye, Daemon Prince of Tzeentch!  I loved you long time I did!)

* * * 

Let's explore a list; is there something else beyond the Standard Fate-Crusher?  A Hybrid Build?

I'll leave it to you to decide whether this is an effective option or not, but personally I prefer it to the current Fate-Crusher ideal of three units of Juggernauts - largely due to the speed of the Fiends and their ability to nail down units from a distance and destroy multiple tanks on the charge.

I prefer the cheaper Herald in the Daemons 2012 list I developed - and will publish tomorrow - but the Skulltaker is almost a design requirement here.

Why?

Think anti-GK's and you'll follow the train of thought.  Dark Excommunication removes Gifts, but the Skulltaker's Rending isn't one, meaning even if he loses his Power Weapon he can still rend out Grey Knights with a 4+.  With less in our toolbox, he's more important in this build.

That's the thought, anyway.  I'd probably drop Skulltaker with the Hounds and the Herald of Khorne with the Crushers, but you can certainly double-up either way if the table dictates it.

Thoughts?

Daemons 2012 Part II

Click for the link!

Know this, up front: I'm a long way from there with these ideas.  Consider this a work in progress at best.

But it's good.

* * *

So Goat called yesterday and we got in a conversation about Daemons.  He had some interesting ideas I hadn't thought of - and I'm not sure how!  How did I overlook it for so long?  It's so simple!

Why not drop the Herald of Khorne with a unit of Flesh Hounds?

Darn it all!

What, you aren't following?

Okay, a Herald of Khorne can be a monster close combat threshing machine.  The problem has always been the delivery system.

The first step is Chariot or Jugger... and there is only one good answer.  No, it's not 'chariot.'

Adepticon 1850 List, Necrons

With less than two months to go, Adepticon is the next big event on my tournament horizon.  Currently, I'm not planning on playing in the Championship rounds, since I'm scheduled to participate with Jon, Nick, and Goat in the Team Tournament.

Last year three days in a row of a brutal schedule was enough to wipe me out.  By the finals on Sunday I was beat.

That said, I might find it hard to resist if I get there and the opportunity presents itself.  Currently I'm planning on taking Necrons, both for off games and the possibility of playing in the tournament.

So, 1850 'Crons, take one:

Daemons! 2K Tournament List! Hurrah!

The Master Manipulator (every store needs one) is hosting a 2K tournament today.  It's going to be a smallish affair, since it was wasn't really advertised outside of town, and yours truly was planning on bringing his Necrons.

That is, until the Client Pimp in Question acquired his new Necron army from Everbody's Brother From Another Mother Big Whit.

Who traded off his only painted army..?  Not sure I understand that one Whit, but I do look forward to you finishing your Guard army.  (Also, I gather the 'Crons weren't performing the way he wanted them to - sometimes a book just isn't a good fit.)

Anyway, as always happens when someone even thinks of divesting themselves of an army, the Client Pimp in Question whips off his magic Helmet of Mind Control and teleports to the wherever he needs to be to make a trade.

Apathy, My Apathy

*sigh*

I'm feeling very French today.

*le sigh*

Apathy.  Uh.

You know, I've never really understood the moods the Master Manipulator (every store needs one) and Little Barrera go through with miniature games - over the past few decades, I'm almost always interested.

Not so much, since Feast.  It's a combination of things, including the weather change and a busy work schedule.

I've tried to fight it.  Let's see what I've been (forcing) working on:

Can Daemons Hold Up?

That's the question I have to ask and answer before this year's tournament season really kicks into high gear.

Warhammer 40K is leaving me behind at the moment.  Quite simply, I'm having problems with making the transition from Daemons to another army.  Finally though, I'm starting to make progress with my Brotherhood, whipping together a LoganWing that I like quite well.  I'm going to start taking it through its paces soon.

A Love/Hate Affair with the CSM 'dex

My all-time favorite armies are 13th Company (now defunct), Eldar (if I could only play one army...), and Daemons (my new baby), but I said that to say this:

I think more about the crappy Chaos Space Marines book than any other army, by far.  I don't know what it is about it, truly, but I find myself kicking around army ideas in my head all the time.

Maybe I'm trying to find the secret; I don't know.  I recently posted my Tzeentch list idea, so here's my latest thought excercise - how do I make Noise Marine pillboxes work?  This is what I've got; let me know what you think.

(2) Daemon Prince, Mark of Tzeentch, Wings, Bolt, Warptime = 200
(5) Noise Marines, Blastmaster, Rhino w Havoc Launcher = 190
(3) Dreadnoughts, CCA w HvyFlamer = 120
(3) Defiler, CCAx2 = 150
(1) Greater Daemon = 100
(1) CSM Squad, Sacrificial Champ, Meltax2, Rhino w Extra Armor = 240 

Obviously it's a Walker/Monstrous Creature/Pillbox list - and I say that like it means something!  Standard caveat - I'll never build this thing.

Go!

Hard Boyz... I'm Still Mad

No, not because the name of the game sounds like a fabulous porn, but because while all of you are out kicking the crap out of each other, I'm at stupid graduation, getting my stupid degree.

That's stupid.  Stupidly.

Okay, so I'm happy about graduating, even in my senior years... well, 34 seems that way sometimes, but I'm still irked GW changed everything this year - and why did they pick the most popular date for college graduations anyway?

I've set this post to publish on Saturday at 11am, the time most of you are playing Game 1 (or just waking up, for those who largely care less) and I'm walking the stage.  I haven't decided if I'm going to wear anything under the gown yet.

Just for fun, here's the army I would have run this year.  (Note: I'd actually have run Stelek's Daemon's list, but I was hoping to entice him to allow Breath of Chaos in, since I've learned from experience how useful it is.)

(4) Herald of Tzeentch, w Chariot, Gaze, Bolt, and Breath = 130
(3) Fiends, 6 strong with champ = 190
(5) Plaguebearers, 5 strong = 75
(1) Flesh Hounds, 10 strong, add Kharnak = 200
(2) Flesh Hounds, 10 strong with champ = 160
(3) Daemon Princes of Tzeentch, w Bolt and Breath = 170

That's my army, and it would have done well, I think.  Not for nothing, I won 3 of the last 6 local tournaments with variations on a theme, so I'm convinced of its viability.  Obviously heavy mech armies like Imperial Guard and Space Wolves Razorback variants are among the toughest opposition, but it can be done.  As Evil Homer says - and his Mech Guard won 2 of the other 3 - his army tends to be geared toward killing MEQ, so having units with an invulnerable save and Eternal Warrior gave him fits.

The astute will realize I said 'among' the toughest... so what's the worst list to face?  A properly done Vulcan Space Marine build, utilizing a Librarian with Null Zone.  It's a pretty sure bet that's at Hard Boyz, but that challenge is what makes it fun.

Enjoy folks.  I least I get a diploma. 

*sigh*

A Tzeentch Interlude

Painting vehicles sucks. 

In fairness, I don't know the tricks.  I'm doing a line effect between the armor plating of my Storm Raven.  What I SHOULD have done is paint the primary color, then paint in the lines, then touch up and voila!  Not bad!  Not what I did, no...

I painted the lines in then painstakingly painted the primary color plate by plate by plate by plate by plate by plate...  You get the idea.

When I'm painting, my mind wanders.  Truth is, there is never enough time to do all the armies you'd want.  Me and Evil Homer are the same on this score; both of us have the miniatures for a Tzeentchian Chaos Space Marines list, but don't have the inclination to build something that won't win often.

Here's a test mini I speed-painted not too long ago; following that, the latest list I've been thinking up.  And no, it won't happen - not until the Chaos boys get a new 'dex.

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings, Bolt, and Warptime: 200
Ditto: 200
Tzeentch Marines Squad, Sorcerer with Bolt; Rhino with Dozer Blade: 222
Ditto: 222
Ditto: 222
Ditto: 222
Five Summoned Daemons: 65
Ditto: 65
Ditto: 65
Ditto: 65
Two Obliterators: 150
Ditto: 150
Ditto: 150

Total:  1998

Grade the List: Competative Daemons

Okay, I'm taking a short break between posting my games from last weekend's tournament; have no fear, gone are the days it takes me a month or more to post a day's worth of games, a la BoLSCon 2009...

...I recall it took me forever to post all those.

But I digress.  This text is strictly business - I want your honest opinion.  I want you kind folks to look at my competitive 2000pt Daemons list and tell me what you think.  There are 3 to consider.


Here's my primary list synopsis:
(3) Herald of Tzeentch: Chariot, Gaze, Breath, Bolt, Master of Sorcery... 130pts
(3) Fiends: 6 models, 1 champion upgrade... 190pts
(4) Plague Bearers: 5 models... 75pts
(1) Flesh Hounds: 12 models plus Karnak... 230pts
(3) Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Breath, Bolt... 170pts

Here's a few changes I was considering:
- 1 Herald
- Breath from the 2 remaining Heralds (they would cost 100 ea)
+ Great Unclean One with Breath
This is a variation of the army I ran at last week's tournament.  At that event, I ran a significantly reduced Khornedogs unit, but it still worked just fine.  I wanted to increase the size of the unit to make it a threat on par with the Fiends, but that's something that can be adjusted.  Point is, this army includes the Great Unclean One with Breath, a surprisingly effective model on numerous fronts.  I'm leaning heavily in this direction.

Lastly, here's a very trim, trim list.  It takes off options that I've grown to love, such as Breath, in favor of increased unit numbers.



(4) Herald of Tzeentch: Chariot, Gaze, Bolt, Master of Sorcery... 100pts
(3) Fiends: 6 models, 1 champion... 190pts
(1) Plague Bearers: 5 models, Icon... 100pts
(3) Plague Bearers: 5 models... 75pts
(1) Flesh Hounds: 7 models plus Karnak... 155pts
(1) Flesh Hounds: 8 models, 1 champion upgrade... 130pts
(3) Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Bolt... 140pts
This army lacks Breath but adds two units to the army's total.  That's 16 units in the army, so I could stack a drop of 8.  (The other two variations are 14 total.)  As an aside, this army looks much closer to the ideal Stelek created for me.

The changes happened due to play-testing, as all good changes should: I found I was getting huge mileage from Breath of Chaos... to the point I seriously question my army's effectiveness without it.

Obviously, I hope to get more play-testing in prior to BoLSCon, which is the next major event I'm attending.  As a note, I still hope to attend Hard Boyz, but I've got to try and find a Sunday event, since GW in its wisdom scheduled Hard Boyz for the most popular college graduation date of the month.

Let me know what you think - Brent

Blood Angels Mark II

Okay, after beating my head against the wall, trying to shake loose a solid Blood Angels list...

...well, I hurt my head.  So I sat down for a bit and thumbed through the Codex for the umpteenth time.  I've been reading blogs and posts all over the net, so I know it's not just me that's having issues.  I finally realized the list isn't going to look the way I expect it to; that, coupled with some advice from friends (like the King's most excellent refutation of my original list) gave me the idea of starting fresh, with some general guidelines to follow.  Let's start with those guidelines:

1)  Our HQ is the Librarian with Jump Pack.  That's psychic defense and killy-goodness rolled into one, for a reasonable price tag of 125pts.
2)  Chaplains get expensive fast, so any list including them is going to be small and hard-hitting.  Why?  Because you'll inevitably build a list to maximize the charge, using the Chaplain with the Sanguinary Priest plus at least 10 Death Company/Terminators/Vanguard or the like.  Frankly, I think perhaps the best use of the Chaplain is to add him like a cherry on the top of another list.  Don't over-think him.  But I'm not using him at this time.
3)  This is going to be an all-infantry force.  I can't crack the hybrid list at this time.

A word on that...  List-Hammer isn't my strength, even after a year of studying it.  I actually started blogging at places like YTTH in order to learn how to build a better army.  My conclusion?  Sometimes a sub par is the best option.  There!  How helpful was that!  Not very?  You obviously don't have my super-awesome-understanding of the Metagame... what?  That doesn't exist?  Okay, I'm confused.

Seriously, my time hasn't been wasted, since I have a better understanding of that side of the game, but I've come to realize I'll never know it as well as Evil Homer, Stelek, Darkwynn, Goatboy, TKE, Chumby... dudes like that.  I'm always going to fiddle, and playtest, and try to make stuff work - that's my strength.  I had to learn when that was appropriate though, since I was famous for changing my list right before a major tournament.  Doing that kind of stupid shit drove my friends nuts.  The Master Manipulator (every store needs one) actually implemented a rule for our latest Army Build Project stating you had to play the 3 event games per month with the same list, simply to encourage me to learn an army better.  He's a benevolent dictator.

Moving on.

4)  No Death Company and no Vanguard.  I need to understand the flow of the army before adding an element like these.

Okay, let's jot down some ideas...

a)  Two Sanguinary Priests.  Yup; necessary, but last time I had both with Jump Packs - is that the right call?  Maybe, since I suspect the key to the Blood Angels now and in the future will be jumping these little blighters from position to position, but for now, since I know I'm going to have both forward and rearguard elements, I'll take one with a Jump Pack and one without.  Also, I know I'm taking a Librarian with a Jump Pack.  That's 75/50/125 for the three, but now I'm done with single-man units.
b)  Next, let's jot down what I want to include and start getting an idea of the numbers.  I want a full-sized Terminators unit with Cyclone Missile Launchers: 460.  Two full-sized Assault Squads with 2x MG and a PF: 470.  Two full-sized Devastator Squads with 4x Missile Launchers and a PF for the Sgt.: also 470.

Now, the general idea is I want the option to combat-squad every unit, depending on who I face.  With big numbers like these, I'm fast running out of points, but I'm desperate for more Troops.  No mech, so Tactical Squads are out.  No Death Company - see #4.  I could fit in another Assault Squad... but how about Scouts?  Do they have a place?  I've played Daemons enough to know the board gets crowded quick; do I want to risk my most expensive unit to a deep-strike mishap?  Locator Beacon.

c)  A full-sized unit of Scouts with Bolters, a PF, and a Locator Beacon: 190.  The idea here is a cheap utility-unit.  I can split it up and hold objectives or place them forward to support an aggressive assault should I need to deep strike the Terminators.  With the Black Rage and/or the Priest within range, not to mention the Power Fist on the Sgt., I have a unit capable of supporting close-combat if necessary... but that's not really their role.  Having this unit gives me options, allowing the Assault Squads to concentrate on the fight.

Okay, I'm down to my last few hundred points.  I've my rearguard: the Devastators are going to combat-squad, so I'll have 4 units of Missiles taking out light mech.  Supported by the Sanguinary Priest, they should be fairly survivable.  Also, they're Blood Angels - they'll be no slouches if the enemy brings the fight to me: that's what the Power Fists are for.  The problem, as I see it, is the phrase 'light mech.'  My army has Melta Guns and Power Fists for taking out heavy mech up close, but I'd rather they didn't have to.  Rereading the 'dex, I saw what the little-used Signum does.  Okay, one weapon gets BS5?  That gave me an idea: I'm going to spend an additional 15pts per squad to upgrade one of the launchers to a Lascannon.  Now, I'll combat squad each unit with 3 Missile Launchers in one 5-man squad and the Sgt. w PF and Lascannon in the other.  The Lascannon can target heavy mech at BS5, leaving my Missile Launchers to soften up Rhinos, Razorbacks, and the like.  Also, if my Sgt. has to move, say to counter-assault, I'm only short one heavy weapon firing.

d)  I'm at 1870.  I'd love another Priest... I spend my last 130 on an Honor Guard with a Company Standard.  Sure, I'd love to add more to this unit - what's that?  Why are you shaking your head?

WHAT?  I'd have to BUY Jump Packs? 

Well hell.  I'm tired of playing.

d, Part II)  Okay, a cherry on the sundae:  a Reclusiarch with a Jump Pack.  I scavenge the extra 25pts by taking the Power Fist from the Scout Sgt. - he didn't need it anyway, he's got to pay attention to the Locator Beacon.

Why a Reclusiarch instead of a Chaplain, HQ instead of Elite?  I think the extra W, I, and A are worth it... plus, I've got a cool model already painted - and he's on a big base. 

Okay, that's my working list, 64 models.  Keep in mind, they're pretty survivable, and they should hit like a ton of bricks.  A potential 12 squads, as needed.

4) Chaplain, Librarian, and Priests
10) Terminators
20) Assault Squads
10) Scout Squad
20) Devastator Squads

The only question is, did I hit the mark?  Am I closer?  No idea!  Take it apart, folks.

On a Lighter Note

I've been dropping hints and begging for help, but alas it has all been lost in the general hustle and bustle of the net.  I dropped my little plea for assistance in the middle of a flamewar at one point; I was politely moved to one side, petted on the head, and asked to stay quiet while the adults insulted each other.

"Your mama!" I heard, as my digital head floated through a bluish background.  "Censor - Don't Censor - Censor - Don't Sensor," rang a monotone chime, as a robot panda dodged past.  A starship floated overhead.

It was all very confusing.  Where else can one find an inflated Boba Fett head chat with a pink ping-pond with eyes and orange shoes?

But the King heard me, because the King is everywhere.  The King shouldn't be confused with the King, because one looked for a ring and the other had a guitar, but just to let you in on a secret I think of the King as the King, 'cause he's cooler.  Okay, now I'm confused and I wrote it, but the point is the King left a message that help is on the way!

Let's see some pictures.

Blood Angels: Trial and Error

(Subtitled: Help a Brother Out!)

I've enjoyed reading all the recent Blood Angels blogs and comments, from Nick and King across the pond to Chumby and others here stateside.  I guess my problem is, I'm still pretty lost.

So, help me out some folks.

Okay, this isn't a deadline sort of project.  I'm going to be taking my Daemons to BoLSCon - and is anyone interested in having a look at that list?  Point is, this isn't an army I have to make any hard decisions on, but I've got the itch to work on Marines so I might as well put that to good use.

I purchased a huge Space Marines army from Evil Homer about a year ago, with the idea of sitting on it until the Codex's release.  Well, now EH is looking like Nostradamus, since the army is chock full of Assault Marines, Honor Guard, Vanguard, Attack Bikes, Baal Predators, and the like, while I've since added my own version of a 10-strong Death Company.  I've also got a number of Rhinos, Devastators, Terminators, and Dreadnoughts, so I can take this army in a number of different directions.

Mmm... maybe I should have just said, I've got a lot of shit.  Point is, I'm lost in all that plastic.  I attempted to build a 2000 point army today.  So, follow along with my train of thought, then maybe you could tell me where I went wrong, because I don't like it.

1)  Okay, I started with a Librarian, and everything is going to have a Jump Pack, so that's 125pts.  I don't see the need yet for two powers a turn, so let's save 50pts.
2)  I want a hard-hitting assault element, so I'll take two Chaplains and two Sanguinary Priests, also both with Jump Packs.  I'm not going to upgrade either, so that's 125pts / Chaplain and 75 / Priest.  Ouch!  But I feel I need that element, the former for the torrenting of wounds I'll need to dish out and the latter for the survivability I'll need to get there then stay there.
3)  Okay, let's take two Assault Squads, each with dual Melta Guns and a Sgt. with a Powerfist.  I'm aware of the Infernus Pistol, but until I've playtested this Codex, I'll stick with what I know and save points where I can.  Okay thats... 235pts each.  Mmm....
4)  I've got two Baal Predators - let's use 'em!  Okay, I want them to act as a mobile element, blocking LoS as needed, so no sponsons.  That also saves points.  Yup - I'm smart I am!  Okay... maybe I got that idea by listening to TKE, Chumby, and JWolf discuss the issue elsewhere, but I'll pretend I knew wtf they were talking about...
5)  I've got some Melta Gun goodness in my Assault Squads, but I've got to be able to knock out Mech if I want to play with the big boys.  Let's take 3 Attack Bikes with Multi-Melta and two Dreadnoughts with the same plus a Heavy Flamer.  That's 150pts for the Bikes and 115pts / Dread, for a total of 380pts.
6)  Did I save enough?  Yes!  Let's take 9 Death Company with Jump Packs, Bolters, and two Thunder Hammers for a total of... that can't be right... let me re-add that.  Okay, 375pts.  Man, they're expensive!  Okay, I'm aware it's going to be controversial for me to advocate for the humble Bolter, giving up an attack each close combat phase, but I don't think it's a bad trade-off.  Relentless let's me lay down the pain at 24-inches while I'm closing the distance, or alternatively take some shots when I'm just not close enough for the assault.  I think it's a good deal - and for the record, not an issue I've seen discussed anywhere, so I'm either right or wrong on my own on this one.  Man, that's an expensive squad.
7)  Okay, problem.  I've got only two Troops choices at 2000pts and only two vehicles, both of which isn't a good thing.  Let's try to solve this.  First, the Blaal Predators are going to be vulnerable to shots from the side, 'cause that's how I'd do it.  We need a screen... can I kill two Gargoyles with one stone?  Let's drop one of the Assault Squads.  Consider, I've got two Chapies and two Priesties... with two Assault Squads and a Death Company, which is the odd squad out?  That's not a huge concern, given that I would have used Combat Squads to divide one of the Assault Squads, but let's try something different.  How about two, 5-man Assault Squads sans Jump Packs, using the 35pt discount to hop in a Razorback?  That's 120pts, so just a bit more than half the cost of the Assault Squad, so two of those doesn't break the bank.  Further, we can run those on each flank of our mech line, protecting the vulnerable side armor of the Baal Preds.

Let's add all that up:
Librarian
Chaplain x 2
Sanguinary Priest x2
Assault Squad, 10-man
Death Company
Assault Squad, 5-man, in Razorback x2
Baal Predators x2
Attack Bike Squad, 3-man
Dreadnoughts x2

1980... so 20pts left over is a Melta Gun per mini-Assault Squad, bringing us up to 2000pts.

There!  I'm so cool!

Problem is, I'm pretty sure it sucks.  Of the 4 tanks, only two have decent armor going for them, and while the Dreadnoughts should draw some of that fire it doesn't seem like much mech.  In addition, even with three choices from the troops selection, it feels vulnerable in objective missions.  As anyone who uses Attack Bikes knows, these draw fire quick; there is no guarantee they can get into position quickly enough to make good use of their firepower.  In short, the list seems scattered.

Am I being too hard on myself?  Maybe; certainly, the Death Company and Assault Squad will take a lot of killing, but I'm not sure it has the goods to stand up to the big boys... the tough and optimized lists. 

So where do I go from here?  Well, I've been asking around, so I expect others (who are better than I at Listhammer) will have opinions I can (steal) access.  For example, I just saw the email from Fritz regarding Infantry-only Blood Angels - and that idea was going to be my next port of call.

Thoughts?  Opinions?  Insults?

Judge the List: Daemons, 1850

I have a tournament this Saturday; here's the list I sent the Master Manipulator (every store needs one) for this event.

Herald of Tzeentch: Chariot, Bolt, Breath, Gaze, Master of Sorcery = 130
Herald of Khorne: Chariot, Might, Fury (Str6 - 7 on the charge - Rending) = 110
Fiends x 6: Might = 190
Plaguebearers x 5 = 75
Bloodletters x 9: Icon = 169
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Might, Bolt = 160

2 of each Herald, 3 Fiends, 2 Plaguebearers, 1 Bloodletters, 3 Daemon Princes = 13 Units

I'm testing the Khorne Heralds and Bloodletters, though neither unit is currently in my Hard Boyz List (the one Stelek's sponsoring).  The Heralds are there for CC, obviously, but with Str. 7 Rending on the charge, I have chances against Mech. - not great, since I'll need 6's to start with AV 13+, but it's at least an option.

I'm also testing Might on the DP's.  I'm a bit nervous here, because they've been such great fire-platforms for me, but 6+2d6 Armor Penetration gives me good chances for a Penetrating AV14 on the charge.

The obvious downside is the number of troops units: I'd prefer 4 at 1850.  I'm hoping that the threats in HQ, Elite, and Heavy gives my opponent something to shoot at other than 'bearers, but we'll see.

Thoughts?

Black Templars: Grade The List

I almost called this post, "Have You Played With Your Hard Boyz Today" but wasn't sure how well that would fly.

At the FLGS, we've been planning for Hard Boyz for most of the year.  We've talked about it before, but we all created new armies to learn, use, and ultimately play in this year's event.  I rolled Daemons, so I've learned to appreciate the challenge.  The Master Manipulator (every store needs one) rolled up Black Templars.  Now Stelek has decided to sponsor army lists for folks to play - I think he's basically advocating for his skill - and it's had a lot of response.  The MM (esno) sent in his list to see if it made the grade, though as of yet there's been no response.  At YTTH, one Black Templar list has been posted...

But the MM (esno) isn't convinced it's better than his own (posted below), so you decide.  Let us know what you think.

2500 Pts - Black Templars Roster - LewisConfair1750_BlackTemplar

 

HQ: Emperor's Champion (1#, 140 Pts)
   1 Emperor's Champion @ 140 Pts
      Bolt Pistol; Crusader Seals; Frag Grenades; The Black Sword; Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
      1 Armor of Faith @ [0] Pts
      1 The Black Sword @ [0] Pts

 

TWO SQUADS OF

Troops: Crusader Squad (9#, 409 Pts)
   6 Crusader Squad @ 409 Pts
      Accept Any Challenge, No Matter The Odds
      2 Neophytes @ [22] Pts
      1 Land Raider Crusader @ [265] Pts       

 

TWO SQUADS OF

Troops: Crusader Squad (6#, 186 Pts)
   5 Crusader Squad @ 186 Pts
   1 Razorback @ [90] Pts
         Twin Linked Lascannon;

 

TWO SQUADS OF

Troops: Crusader Squad (9#, 180 Pts)
   5 Crusader Squad @ 180 Pts
   3 Neophytes @ [30] Pts
   1 Rhino @ [50] Pts
        

THREE SQUADS OF

Heavy Support: Predator Destructor (1#, 110 Pts)
   Autocannon; Heavy Bolter (x2)

 

Elite: Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad (6#, 480 Pts)
   5 Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad @ 480 Pts
      Lightning Claws (pair) (x4); Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (x1);

   Land Raider Crusader @ [265] Pts

 

Total Roster Cost: 2500

(I've attempted to make the army more legible)

Big Whit's Chaos Space Marines

Big Whit here:

Got my new camera so now I can start adding posts with pictures of figurines and not just old 80s wrestlers. Here is my daemon prince and my greater daemon. My greater daemon is almost done, all I have to do is paint the base. I didn't do so hot on this last tournament I finished 6th and I've done a lot of changes to my list. So far I'm not all that impressed with the new list. I had to take out the greater daemon, and I can definitely tell that he is missing. I have to play3 games with this list and if my games don't get better then I'll change my list up some more. I want an in your face army and the problem is that if my land raider gets blown up in the first turn then the Berzerkers are useless, and my rhinos don't have much chance of survival. I may take out the Berzerkers and I may try to find a way to put back the greater daemon.

I tried to copy this from a PDF file and it came out screwed up. I hate being computer illiterate. The berzerkers are in the land raider.

1750 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster

HQ: Daemon Prince
1 Daemon Prince @ 155 Pts
Wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Lash of Submission (x1)

HQ: Daemon Prince
1 Daemon Prince @ 155 Pts
Wings; Mark of Slaanesh; Close Combat Weapon; Fearless; Lash of Submission (x1)

Troops: Plague Marines
6 Plague Marines @ 281 Pts
1 Plague Champion @ [63] Pts
1 Rhino @ [55] Pts

Troops: Plague Marines
6 Plague Marines @ 276 Pts
1 Plague Champion @ [63] Pts
1 Rhino @ [50] Pts

Troops: Khorne Berzerkers
6 Khorne Berzerkers @ 192 Pts
1 Skull Champion @ [61] Pts

Heavy Support: 3 Obliterators @ 225 Pts

Heavy Support: 3 Obliterators @ 225 Pts

Heavy Support Land Raider @240 Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1749

So those 4 of you reading may have picked up on the fact that we have a tournament this weekend. I haven't posted in either Brent's or Whit's list threads because in Brent's case I honestly don't have any great advice and Whit seems dead set on his list (so I won't be a dick and bash it).

In my case I have my list ready to go. As normal I'm not completely happy with it. There is something about the List or maybe the codex in general, that just doesn't do it for me. Not sure what it is. I think it's because I keep trying to make changes to my list but can't really justify it. Like I won't give other units an honest shake or something. I put a PBS in my monthly list only to be paired against 2 fearless, and 1 mostly fearless army, so much for playing leadership games. It makes me inclined to not put it in my tournament list because I just haven't seen how its going to work so it got axed. My monthly also ran 2 IST squads to make the vendetta's scoring, they have been replaced by base platoon squads. So here it is.

1500 Pts - 5th Edition Roster

HQ: Company Command Squad (6#, 167 pts)
4 Company Command Squad @ 167 pts (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Plasmagun x4; Chimera)
1 Company Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Refractor Field; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Senior Officer)
1 Chimera (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)

HQ: Inquisitor Lord (4#, 83 pts)
1 Inquisitor Lord [OM] @ 83 pts (Psychic Hood)
1 Familiar [OM] (Close Combat Weapon)
1 Mystic [OM] (Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)
1 Mystic [OM] (Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 155 pts)
9 Veteran Squad @ 155 pts (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Lasgun x6; Meltagun x3; Chimera)
1 Veteran Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)
1 Chimera (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)

Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 155 pts)
9 Veteran Squad @ 155 pts (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Lasgun x6; Meltagun x3; Chimera)
1 Veteran Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)
1 Chimera (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)

Troops: Infantry Platoon (26#, 200 pts)
1 Infantry Platoon @ 200 pts
4 Platoon Command Squad (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Lasgun x1; Flamer x3; Chimera)
1 Platoon Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon; Junior Officer)
1 Chimera (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
9 Infantry Squad (Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x9)
1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)
9 Infantry Squad (Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Flak Armour; Lasgun x9)
1 Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship Squadron (1#, 140 pts)
1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron @ 140 pts
1 Vendetta (Extra Armor; Searchlight; Twin-linked Lascannon x3; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2)

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship Squadron (1#, 140 pts)
1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron @ 140 pts
1 Vendetta (Extra Armor; Searchlight; Twin-linked Lascannon x3; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2)

Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship Squadron (1#, 140 pts)
1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron @ 140 pts
1 Vendetta (Extra Armor; Searchlight; Twin-linked Lascannon x3; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2)

Heavy Support: Manticore Rocket Launcher (1#, 160 pts)
1 Manticore Rocket Launcher @ 160 pts (Storm Eagle Rockets; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Flamer)

Heavy Support: Manticore Rocket Launcher (1#, 160 pts)
1 Manticore Rocket Launcher @ 160 pts (Storm Eagle Rockets; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Flamer)

Total Roster Cost: 1500

=I= and the 2 infantry squads get vendetta's. This should allow me to operate the melta vets more aggressively than in the past as the number of scoring units has increased. I don't want to use them as sacrifices but sometimes things have to die. The CCS is my reserve unit, whenever there is a gap in the lines, there they go, 4 plasma's work on this unit.

There are 1-2 armies that I am actually a little worried about this month. Mikey's Space Wolves are going to be a beast to beat. Razorback and Missile Launcher spam makes short work of AV 12. I may to play the reserve game with the vendetta's for that one and hope the manticore's get lucky and take out 1-2 Razorbacks each on my turn 1. While that's happening push the chimera's up the table. I can't outrange that army with this build. We'll have to see how it goes. Maybe I get lucky and his dice go to hell...hmmm...prayer circle anyone?

Tyranids are the other army (if they show) that is going to be interesting, and that alone forced the inclusion of the =I= to hopefully provide some defense against dropping Zoe's and other gribbly BS.

Oh and I did something stupid this week, I am participating in the B&C Librarium Painting Challenge. Seems I have to paint 1 squad of Thousand Sons and Rhino before the 31st of march. So much for working on the Guard....

-EH

Happy Greg The Warhammer Valentines Day

Okay, so it's been awhile since I've posted anything which doesn't matter because no one knows this site exists. Maybe we should call Brent a gamer girl to boost the blogs membership, shave his face and grow some hair who knows it might just work. Well this month we have moved up to 1500 pts and I am still using my chaos space marines. I played my three matches for the month and to my surprise I have won all three. This means that for the tournament next week I'll be playing against one of the other top players for round one. I've been told that the person that I will meet up with in the first round plays blood angels. My army is very assault orientated so it should be a good match up for me. Here is the list that I think I'll be taking in all of it's chaos glory.

2 Demon prince w/ wings, mark of slaanesh, and lash.

1 greater demon

10 man marines w/ 2meltas, chaos glory, sgt with power fist, in a rhino that has a havoc launcher.

8 man marines w/ 1 melta, chaos glory, sgt with power fist, in rhino that has a havoc launcher

8 man plague marines w/ 2 meltas personal icon, sgt w/ power fist, in a rhino that has a havac launcher.

5 lesser demons

3 obliterators in one squad

I hope to place in the top 3 but you never can tell. Sorry that I don't have any pictures from the games I've played but my camera died on me. Hopefully I'll have a new one by the tournament.