Competitive is Consistent: Initial Thoughts, and on Daemons

CliffNotes: Brent answers a reader's question about Daemons!

Before we get started, check out my article on Blood of Kittens: The Int'l House of Paincakes Serves Up Pain!

Tom said...

Hi Brent, long time reader first time writer.  At least you wrote - that's a free blog post for me, so any of you fine folks out there wanna write, DO IT!

I too play daemons, though perhaps not as well as you. So true, so true... I'm super awesome I am.  I had a thought about a different way to build heralds, and wondered what you thought.

4xHeralds of Tzeentch w/ Disc, Bolt, Master of Sorcery, We Are Legion

More pricy, but allows you to get the bolts you need on the board with more ease, as instead of taking up four places in a wave, it only takes up one.  The Discs count as Jump Infantry, so can join Tzeentchian Units.


Okay, this is a pretty fantastic idea and what all you out there should be shooting for.  It's thinking outside the box and looking at units in a way others either haven't or have discounted.

That said, by itself it's a gimmick.  If we weren't Daemons, it'd be less of one, but we're Daemons and we have to play as consistently as possible.

I mentioned in a Bell of Lost Souls article that I have a new motto; Evil Homer helped me work it out.  It's this:

Competitive is Consistent.

This isn't consistent because all your eggs are in one basket.  If the unit comes out first, great!  It's when it doesn't that you have a problem.  It may not come out on Turn 2, or Turn 3, and that's a good chunk of your anti-mech that you're playing without.

Still, you're on to something.  Your idea has merit, so don't let me dissuade you: you're just on the cusp of a much better idea.

Tom, or anyone else out there, what am I driving at?

Answer in the comments, then come back tomorrow: we're going to break this SELF-EDIT down!

To be continued...


Behemoth said...

wise words..

itd make sense of me to drop heralds in a 2x2 group utilizing 2 groups of screamers. 2 in wave one, 2 in wave two.

Sure, its a smaller amount of screamers with 2 heralds attached - but if youre cramped on space you can get both heralds down in the same deepstrike, and not need to worry about herald #2 scattering on the asshole who got there first.-

So if youre intent on dropping them with screamers - this would give you a more reliable way to do so.

jabberjabber said...

Agreed -- consistency is the key. The issue is that good ideas such as these can be effective once, twice, maybe a few more times due to sheer surprise. After that, the space marines (and others) wise up and figure out how to nullify the edge we daemon players have constructed.
But I do like the idea immensely... :)

Von said...

I think Behemoth has it. The answer is reduncancy for consistency for reliability's sake?

Tom said...

Cheers for the post. Glad you picked up on it, because it seems one of the few units I the codex that hasn’t been discussed.

You could also do this with a 4xherald of slaanesh w/might, pavene, steed, musk in a unit of fiends, but you’d better be taking bolt somewhere else in the army.

I agree that it may cause a lack of consistency depending on how you stack your waves, though there are ways you can mitigate this. For example, here's my current daemons list at 1750, which I'll be playing for the next 10 games. Not the most competitive, but plays the way I like to play with daemons.

Herald of Tzeentch w/ Disc, Bolt, WaL, Mos x 3
Skulltaker w/ Jugger

4xFlamers w/ Bolt

5xHorrors w/ Changeling


DP w/ MoN, Flight, Touch, Flies, Breath, Hide
DP w/ MoT, Bolt, Might
DP w/ MoT, Bolt, Might, Flight

Imagine for a second I swap the discs and screamers for chariot heralds w/ breath. Breath doesn't work on disc heralds, as they are used more defensively. Ok my split waves would look like

2xHeralds, DP w/o flight, PB, Skulltaker w/ Bloodletters, Horrors

1xHerald, 2xDP, Flamers, PB

Pretty even right?

Now my split with the discs

3xHeralds w/ Screamers, 2xPB, Horrors, Nurgle DP

Skulltaker w/ Bloodletters, 2xDP, Flamers

Also a pretty even split. CC in each, same number of bolts, but more targets in the second wave. Either way I drop, I'm pretty happy.

I think this herald unit idea has something’s going for it, mainly it's ability to split up if needed, and it's size which should make it a target. Hope that explains my thinking.

Brent said...


Your idea does have merit! I never wanted you to think it doesn't. That said, I don't think you're getting the most out of it.

You're utilizing the idea in another way when you drop the Skulltaker in with the 'Letters. I've done the same think myself in practice games.

We'll be talking more about this this weekend.


The_King_Elessar said...

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