11.01.2009

Dumb Enough To Jump In - Again...

From Yes The Truth Hurts; sorry, I wasn't able to resist. :(

REGARDING PAUL’S POINT OF VIEW

Okay, so you were being snide.

But I am the bigger man! Get it, bigger man?

Let’s go back to the original email.

“OH my! This article up on saimhann is quite telling, particularly because jawaballs (the author) is part of the bols monkeysphere.”

So we established Jawaballs wasn’t the author; you made a mistake because your Reader posted an advert for Jawa’s painting videos or something. You’re also establishing you believe the author, Fritz in this case, is part of the BOLS Monkeysphere – but you went further when you later said, “…blindly agreeing with anything written by their beloved leaders without even thinking,” so it’s not a stretch to say you believe(d) Fritz is(was) a leader in that community. What did he do, send in the box top? Does he participate in the meetings where the conspiracy to take over the gaming community is even now being hatched? Okay, so here’s thelink – read the first line.

http://saimhann.blogspot.com/2009/10/seer-councils-are-banned.html

“Just an observation… from gents in the UK, Germany (et al).”

Fritz tells you in the first line what the rest of the post is about - which is good writing, by the way. Stelek is far, far cleverer - I’m not blind to how I’m being used here - without a word, with only reposting your reply from another thread, Stelek assured that some information he knew was on my blog would be reposted here by someone other than him so he could have a go at it. But I digress.

Please save me the trouble of copying more of the post by actually reading the whole thing. Don’t skip over the part where it says ‘posted by Fritz’ either. Don’t worry – I’ll wait.

Back yet? Did you read the part where Fritz said, “GW made the damn codex… if a model is illegal, why is it in the current codex?” Illuminating. Let’s get back to your original post.

I like how it's ok to ban inquisitorial armies and allied wh/dh on one site, but come down very hard on banning other units on another site. Seriously, either you let GW make the rules or you don't. You can't have it both ways. What a tangled web we weave....

So you’re taking this post and using it as evidence of hypocrisy at BOLSCON. Just making sure; you later accuse me of being unable to follow the brilliant chain of logic you established… whoops! Let’s use your words here and say ‘the utter lack of critical thinking and the inability to have a discussion contextually’ so I’m simply trying to establish I understood what you said, not what you thought you were saying when you backpedaled later. Fritz said, “If a model is illegal, why is it in the current codex?” You said, “Either you let GW make the rules or you don’t.” This is two different ways of saying the exact same thing. He wasn't disagreeing with you at all.

Okay, so why have I wasted almost 600 words and everyone’s time? To point out you didn’t do your homework before you shot off the email for no other purpose than bashing Bell again.

Gossip. Conjecture. Humans are so good at this game it doesn’t need to be taught: just ask any group of middle school girls who they hate and why. What you did was the blogosphere variant of whispering about someone you don’t like.

My post on the thread ‘reader-rant-banning-unit’ was actually in response to VetSgtNamaan’s words. Go back and read it. Am I the only one who finds it a tiny bit chilling? The ‘hate BOLSCON/hate Bell’ paradigm is now so established that this dude immediately understands the theme and attacks THEIR BASIC HUMAN DECENCY. I’ll agree with one thing, this has become such a ‘soup (shit?) sandwich’ that the original arguments are becoming lost in the random smearing. (As an aside, I have nothing against the dude who sits at his computer and posts as VetSgtNamaan. I have read enough of his posts to believe he’s an all-right dude, but if I had to guess I’d say he’s early 20’s.)

You said, same thread, “I’m afraid my point was missed if you thought the connection was tenuous. Let me reiterate. I don’t care about Fritz or Jawaballs or whoever. They’re fine guys. I don’t care for JWolf because he’s a dick.”

This is so genius I should let it rest as my final argument. But I won’t. I think when a post about another continent was written by a dude from another state that had nothing to do with an event he had no part in planning it is safe to call the connection tenuous. Now, you don’t know Fritz or Jawa but they’re fine guys… but JWolf, who you also don’t know, is a dick.

Here we finally, after all this, get to what you actually believe.

These people will sycophantically say how JWolf can do no wrong…

“What do you mean ‘these people’?” What do YOU mean ‘these people’?” Great movie. But I have to ask, “Who What When Where and can you please copy the link.” Like I’ve said previously, JWolf apologized for something he did, so he at least doesn’t seem to think he’s always right.

Here’s how the game is played. 1) Pick a target, in this case JWolf. 2) Take his words out of context and/or draw biased conclusions from a partial quote or assumption. 3) Build an argument so large and elaborate the original quote loses all meaning. 4) Defend your new position by drawing material from the fabrication. 5) Find others who agree. And so on.

Or won’t take a stance on his decision at BOLSCON…

I told you what I thought his reasons were (the guard codex came out in the same month as the event) but since I knew I was making an assumption, I asked him. Here are his words.

JWolf: “I banned DH/WH allies for BoLSCon because IG with Inquisitorial allies was both strongest build and could use the most wierd rules. Given time, people adjust and can compensate, but with the IG book brand new, I felt keeping the IG limited was worth doing for balance and playability's sake. I was loathe to ban anything...”

At our local tournaments we aren’t allowed to use a codex that hasn’t been out for at least one month. Like I’ve said before, this is not an unreasonable thing to do. Note here they didn’t actually ban the new codex, which I believe would also have been reasonable; instead, they compromised.

In my opinion, there are two possible paths the reasonable person could take here: agree or disagree. Enough people agreed with their wallets to make the event a success. Stelek disagreed, with this aspect of the event among other things, and decided to DO HIS OWN EVENT. I can respect that – hell, I do and I’ve said multiple times I want to be a part of such an event. Instead, the argument here is JWolf is a hypocrite because he advocates the use of all the rules normally but didn’t for BOLSCON. It’s a stretch. The decision was made for one event and they stuck by it; agree or disagree, your option.

Last, the Gladiator… would it change anyone’s mind to know JWolf gave away the Forge World Titan he won, just like he said he would before the event? Not ‘I’m going to do it but actually keep it’ but give it away to a stranger? No?

Then like I said in my blog, bringing it back up here, on Stelek’s blog, would accomplish nothing. There are no inconsistencies in his position, or mine, or even Stelek’s – there are opinions, and everyone’s got one.

REGARDING STELEK’S POINT OF VIEW

So, my thoughts on Stelek and his take on this. I believe he knew what he was doing reposting Paul’s reply on the previous thread. I think he knew full well what was said on my blog and as a master of generating interest he did the simplest thing to get the information here for much wider dispersal – after all, nobody reads my blog – so he or others could comment on it. My opinion is Stelek sees things in black and white, and yes I know I’m not the first to say this, so it is impossible for him to resist fighting the fight when he sees a chink in the armor. That’s fine by me – this is his site and he’s nothing if not consistent; also, I don’t really think he sees it as more than some grand intellectual argument, so he doesn’t seem to take anything personally until someone crosses the line. Have I crossed the line here? Don’t know. Doesn’t matter – his readers don’t seem to maintain the same aloofness, and much like any flame war it can get personal quick.

My worry is the constant use of Bell as the ‘bad example’ generates nothing but bad feeling; in that, I do believe there is a monkeysphere, ready charge at the first hint of blood. The reason I said the original thread was so much random bullshit is that it accomplishes NOTHING of Stelek’s mission statement, but is hate for hate’s sake.

I think this site is best when Stelek is doing his thing, making people rethink the game and how it’s played. I understand that part of that is drawing from examples across the internet, but it has to be allowed to die otherwise its whipping people into a frenzy for the sake of doing it.

Stelek, maybe I’m wrong. Why don’t you do a poll? Maybe not ‘Who Is Right, Brent or Paul’ (though I think that’s me!) but rather, ‘Do You Think This Blog Should Mention Others?’ or something on that vein.

Take care - Brent

7 comments:

Bruce said...

Off of the subject, are you going to post anything about the tournament at Carolina comics? I would like to hear about battle reports, and tactics.

Brent said...

It isn't off the subject - come out and say it - you want Brent back! The guy who posts hobby stuff and doesn't fall prey to seductive but futile flame wars.

*sigh*

I need you to stage an intervention.

Mercer said...

Brent I read majority of the post and I cannot make my mind up. Are you going against Stelek or with him? What I can deceipher is your beef is about him bringing up BoLs.

Reason Stelek often brings up BoLs because he thinks there tactics are shit. He calls anyone out who says stupid things. I do this on dakkadakka.com when people post stupid suggestions, though Stelek does this more openly I guess. This has resulted in what appears to be YTTH vs BoLs and looks if Stelek is constantly slating them. Question is, is he slating them? Or does he just think they are posting false information and he is alerting people via his blog?

I was gonna post some other stuff but I got a phone call and forgot! :(

Bruce said...

Okay gossip girl, you asked for it. Quit acting like the Perez Hilton of 40k. These are grown men who have taken more blows to the face than Jenna Jamison, but don't get paid for it. They play a competitive game of who's right and who's wrong, and it is just a matter of perspective when you get down to it. Let the the fans call names and stir shit up, hell someones going to do it anyways, but let it die on a different blog. This is high school crap, talk about what really matters to gamers which since you've forgotten is games. Intervention over.


Was that over the top? I can never tell.

Brent said...

Lol - no, that was perfect. I'm pretty much done with that kind of post - it does nothing.

Mercer, no my argument was crafted as a reply against Paul Atreides and his email and subsequent posts. Some of those points I make are in disagreement with stated positions Stelek holds, but we agreed to disagree awhile ago and so far he hasn't stepped in but rather allowed me and Paul to go at it.

I enjoy Stelek's site and am a frequent poster, but I think the general anti-Bell attitude isn't useful. I think he's been moving away from it, but we'll see.

Brent

jawaballs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mercer said...

Brent some advice, don't bother wasting the skin on your fingers arguing with some people on their. Some will never give in. Be interesting to meet them in person lol.

btw - I'm not talking about Stelek btw ;)

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