10.27.2009

On Fanboys (and Bell... and YTTH... and...)

Below is a comment I made on Stelek's site, Yes the Truth Hurts. You can find the thread here. I'm reproducing it here (because I'm lazy) because I'm hoping to get one of the Flylords to answer the question about the BOLSCON decision. Also Mkerr has started a blog, which is naturally instantly better and more popular than mine - check it out.

PS - Since I published this blog, Stelek posted a reply to my comment that's worth reading. I'm not going to reproduce it here, since it belongs to him and his site. I see where he's coming from, I just think he's a bit too 'black and white' sometimes. *shrugs* Who knows?

(a random picture, just 'cause)

Paul,

You have some fair points. I've had issues with Reader, so I can see how that can happen. I'm also not arguing your right to feel the way you do about Bell.

But if your goal was to point out the hypocrisy inherent at BOLSCON or dog on the yes men in their monkeysphere, let's take that point by point.

(BTW, monkeysphere is too funny - perfect mental image; kudos.)

So part of the point here is the ban on allies for BOLSCON, especially when this is the same club that trounced everyone at the Gladiator. I assumed then, and I'm assuming now, that the decision had more to do with the new Guard codex, which came out in August - the same month as the event. The new codex was allowed, but given how new it was - not to mention the questions regarding the new application of the allies rules and how it was going to be interpreted - isn't it at the very least an understandable decision?

Even if you don't agree, isn't it at least reasonable?

We all know what they say about assumptions, so I'm going to ask. Smile

Regarding Gladiator, Mkerr, JWolf, and Goatboy told me they had strong reservations about allowing Forge World models and Titan rules at the Gladiator; remember, they were on the steering committee. When they were voted down, they built the combination they warned folks about. I believed them when they said it; it had the ring of truth, and they had no reason to lie about it. It is competitive to do the best you can under a given set of boundaries; I don't see how they're dickheads for doing it.

Unless you think they were dickheads before, then fair play - rock on mate.

Next point. Fanboys. Okay, they exist. They're on Bell, they're on YTTH. Librarium, Dakka, Warseer and so on. It's human nature to identify with groups. Personally I'm looking forward to the rumble.

I can picture it now! Music, cameras, action! People breaking out in song and dance for no apparent reason... West Side Story, baby! A staged fight scene, yea man!

That said, if you blog for any length of time you develop a 'twit filter.' I think we all know how to mine for gold in the 'comments' section of a blog, and ignore the inane posting of 12-year olds. No offense to 12-year olds though...

There are a lot of people who read and post on a number of sites. I've said for a long time that YTTH and Bell are by far my favorite, and they are. You can also find the King, Frank Fugger, Danny Internets, Fritz, Raptor, Goat, and Mort all over the place - all people that post here, and that's just off the top of my head. Hell, ChaosGerbil leaves little three-toed tracks everywhere! Everyone's consistent, and I wouldn't label any of them Fanboys.

But I take your point, a vocal majority does exist, but that's here too.

I get that people were upset about JWolf's comment on the awful joke told about Stelek's wife, but he apologized. That's never easy, especially given how little love is lost between the two sites, though lately that seems to be relaxing some. I don't think I'm the only person who's noticed the effort Stelek has made to moderate the more outrageous critiques.

I've met JWolf, and I can tell you he is a really decent guy, very chill, very laid back. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about him or Bell - I just think there is room for a wide variety of folks in this hobby.

Anyway, sorry to ramble - take care - Brent

7 comments:

mkerr said...

Hey Brent, awesome blog and thanks for the link!

I had no idea that this was something people were still talking about, lol! Here's the quick version of the BOLSCON decision making process. But keep in mind that this was JWolf's call and he may have slightly different recollection.

1. BOLSCON and the release of the new Imperial Guard codex were very close to each other.

2. We decided to allow the new IG codex. But after reading through it, we had tons of questions so we realized we were going to have to write an FAQ for the army.

3. While working on the FAQ, we noticed that using the "Using DH/WH Units as Allies" rules created a ton of complications with the new IG codex (e.g., can you give allied units orders?). I think we had around 20 different "can I do this?" cases.

4. We were soon spending an inordinate amount of time and effort trying to iron out this little complications -- and since players were encouraged to turn in their army lists in advance -- we expected a lot of confusion from the players that chose to use the "Using DH/WH as Allies" rules.

5. At one of the FAQ meetings we made the call to drop the "Using WH/DHs as Allies" rules from tournament. I suspect it was JWolf's suggestion, although (as the local Inquisitorial advocate) I completely agreed that it made the FAQ a lot less complicated.

Our intention is not to "change the rules" or to "limit players" (or establish any sort of precedent), our goal was to make it easier to organize a smooth and successful event.

It worked -- BOLSCON was awesome.

Jwolf said...

We weren't on the steering commitee or anything else for Gladiator; we just have gone to Adepticon several times and made a couple of pointed and friendly calls warning that the inclusion of Reavers would negate almost all other possible builds for the Gladiator. A Manta would have still been all but unbeatable and a proper Eldar Flying circus would generally beat the Reaver (but almost nothing else), so there were weaknesses, but overall Reavers are too powerful for games under 4000 points. We made this call in good faith; we are some of the few people who actually play with the giant Apoc stuff more than once or twice a year.

I went and read the thread; you now owe me 30 minutes of your life in return.

I'm not sure why I get tarred with the "painting myself as a pillar of the community" brush, as if being a pillar of the community was something I either aspired to or made myself out to be. I'm a guy who plays a lot of games of toy soldiers, and people who play games against me seem to think I'm pretty good at it. I'm a two-bit military historian, certainly avocational in scope, and I'm reasonably well read. I like to think I'm an honest and straightforward person, and that I generally have a reasonable sense of fairplay. Any pillarness that is ascribed to me is neither pursued nor desired by me.

I don't think going to a specifically no-holds-barred event and bringing a ridiculously overpowered list is anything like being a douchebag, but obviously opinions differ. I also don't think that equating Adepticon with Gladiator is in any way reasonable. There are plenty of other events there; if you only play 40K and don't want to play Gladiator you can skip Friday. It's great to have 1000 other people playing toy soldiers in the same hotel; to me Adepticon is the best place to meet more players from more places, and thus not an event to miss. And I did give the Titan away, as I said I would before I entered the competition. I entered Gladiator with the list I used to prove a point, and regardless of the opinion of nonparticipants and other members of the peanut gallery, there was no way to prove the point without actually using the list and winning. I don't think I ruined Gladiator, but I do see that changes are being made (some the same changes I asked for before Adepticon 2009). Winning put me in a position to help level the playing field, whereas comments from nonparticipants (and even nonwinning participants) do little or nothing.

I banned DH/WH allies for BoLSCon because IG with Inquisitorial allies was both strongest build and could use the most wierd rules. Given time, people adjust and can compensate, but with the IG book brand new, I felt keeping the IG limited was worth doing for balance and playability's sake. I was loathe to ban anything, and I made the decision to make DH/WH Inducted Guard stronger (and stronger than the eventual GW FAQ makes them) to allow those codices to be effectively used as codices rather than cherry-picked.

As to my comment of Jaws - seems pretty straightforward to me - Jaws is terrible, as in "causing teror". I'm assuming the confusion is feigned, as the confused is credited with at least average intelligence.

Brent said...

*sigh*

Yea, JWolf, I agree, except that I think I owe you considerably more than a 1/2 hour. I'm sorry if all this ruined even a part of your day.

I was irked the whole thing was brought up again, especially given the tenuous connection used to link Fritz's post with BOLSCON, so I took up the cause. I guess at some point I thought I could change a few minds but obviously that's not what happened.

Well, I was wrong about the steering committee but right on the greater detail. The crux of it is - in this case - the 'ban' on allies. This is the first I've heard it was an issue, but I guess the reason with just a few minutes thought. It was the obvious solution.

I'll admit to some frustration here. I'm sorry I brought the whole thing up, posting a response the way I did, but now I did what I said I would and asked you guys what happened. Now I feel like jumping back in and swinging, but I'm wise enough to know when I'd be beating a dead horse, so I'll let it go here.

Mkerr - I'm glad at least to have discovered your new site. I love the format and the material is first rate - I actually find myself wanting to field an assassin now. I'm a bit jealous, since I've been doing this long enough now to want something nicer than a blog-template.

Take care - Brent

Jwolf said...

The half hour can be spent over drinks, so it's unlikely to be that bad.

I'm not particularly upset over anything written on that thread; trolls are free to do their thing, and I'm a public entity. I do get tired of being called names by strangers, but thankfully I have plenty of friends to call me worse, so I'll survive.

mkerr said...

You weren't completely wrong about the "steering committee" part -- it just didn't include JWolf last year.

Bigred and I help Adepticon as much as time and resources allowed. We love Adepticon. It's the best tournament in the world -- that I actually get to play in.

Outside of the 40K Team Tournament, we had no say on how the tournament ran (that was in the extremely capable hands of Hank and others).

However, Hank was nice enough to solicit my feedback on the FAQ and the rules of the various tournaments. Since we have probably the most experience with super-heavies around (and have a history of "breaking" the Gladiator), we made some suggestions -- including the recommendation to ban the Reaver.

I know JWolf mentioned it, but he did donate the Gladiator prize to an extremely happy hobbyist.

Bruce said...

Brent, lets hear how the tournament went, and do you have any photos of it?

Green Blow Fly said...

Thunderhawks p0wn Reavers.

G

(A new favorite!) Anon: I haven’t even bothered playing a game of 6th yet, cause I have read the rules, and actually understand how they interact with units. I know my armies no longer function how they should, and so I need to change them.

Strictly Average: 'cause 6-inches is all you get.

Stalking Jawaballs since 2009.

Jawaballs: "My butt just tightened up."

Brent, preferred 2-to-1 over Not Brent in a recent, scientific poll.

Brent: emptied the Kool Aid and DRINKING YOUR MILKSHAKE with an extra-long straw.

Unicorns don't exist.

Home of the Stormbuster, the Dyson Pattern Storm Raven.

I'm a comment whore and this whore is getting no play.

Not Brent hurts Brent's feelings.

I think, therefore I blog.

"You should stop writing for everyone else and worry about your crappy blog." - Anon.

Not Brent has been spotted lurking around with a green marker.

He's not like a bad guy from a cartoon, all devious but never quite evil, Not Brent is bad beans, man, bad beans.

Dethtron: "Again I feel obliged to remind you that trying to sound smart only works if you are."

MVB: "I am not one to join the unwashed masses of self-titled 40k experts out there distributing advice from their blogs about exactly how your list should be built..."

Shiner Bock on tap: that's how I choose hotels.

Strictly Average: The Home of Hugs and Gropings.

Don't feed the trolls!

MoD: "Welcome to Brent's head."

Competitive is Consistent.

Dethtron: "...you could use that extra time to figure out a way to get your panties unbunched and perform a sandectomy on your vagina."

Dethtron: “When calling someone an idiot, it's generally best to avoid making grammatical mistakes.”

Warboss Stalin: "You know, if it actually WAS funny, maybe I wouldn't mind."

Mike Brandt: "It's not a successful bachelor party if you don't misplace someone".

"The Master Manipulator (every store needs one): "...now, enough stroking."

Kirby: "I don't know about gropings. Seriously, Brent, keep it in the pants, please."

Loquacious: "No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get Hugs & Gropings or Stalks Jawaballs into Brent's little tribute."

Captain Kellen: "I rate this article a Brent on the Faith Hill to Nancy Pelosi scale!"

Drathmere: "Come for the balls, stay for the Brent? Kind of disturbing, man."

Go no further, lest thee see something thine eyes would fain look past!

Isabelle: "So, thank you for supporting your local and not so local unicorns. A noble gesture like that can show some scared kids out there that they don't have to hide from everyone and it's ok to be who they really are."

There is nothing more interesting than We The People... in all our beautiful, ugly glory!

On Internet Advice: You see, I have an almost religious belief that's it's a huge, colossal waste of time.

...I think I'll call it the Gun Shy Pattern Stormbuster, because after the Internet destroyed my first humble effort, I find I'm a bit worried about the reaction to this one.

Lauby: "Is it left over from that time you thought that you could just complete step one 12 times to meet the mandates of that court order?"

Not Brent: "I guess we'll have to read on and find out. Signed, Not Brent. Especially today."

Cynthia Davis: "I think the scrolling text is from Glen Beck's new book."

Grimaldi: "Spamming certain units creates interesting possibilities but also fatal weaknesses."

Purgatus: "Math can inform decisions. It cannot make decisions."

Thoughts? Comments? Hugs and gropings?

You'd be that much quicker to figure out what I mean when I refer to a Unicorn if I covered it in a rainbow flag.

SinSynn: (To Brent) "Curse you and your insidious influence on the internets..."

Dave G (N++): "You know you're an internet celebrity when your following is more akin to tabloids."

I prefer the term Internet Personality (or IP) myself, seeing as how I coined it.

Lauby: "Your attempt to humanize him as failed. I feel nothing but scorn for his beard - it's like a warcrime or something."

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'Clearly cheating?' I didn't misspeak: you jumped to conclusions. If you'd like to apologize I'll be happy to send you an autographed picture of my ass.

Ass.

I thought I was doing alright before I realized I was losing.

Age and treachery beats youth and vigor every time.

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