3.11.2012

Daemons 2012 Part III

So what about the Fateweaver?  My view is, "I'm not a fan... but..!"

Let's just get that out of the way now.

* * * 

As most of my longtime readers know, "I'm not a fan."  Since taking on Daemons due to the machinations of Evil Homer in Exile and the Master Manipulator (every store needs one), I've had a few rules of thumb - developed due to hard experience - that served me well...


  1. Bolt is a requirement
  2. Fiends do the heavy lifting
  3. Soul Grinders are a red herring
  4. Fateweaver is too inconsistent


My motto is Competitive is Consistent.  I'm not out to win a game - my goal is to win four in a row.

Or more.

* * * 

Interestingly, it's one of those things I have a hard time explaining to the Client Pimp in Question, our local young prodigy-in-training.  There's a world of difference in my standard game and my wanna-win game... but in most of my standard games I'm exploring an idea or concept to test its validity.

Some of that's for this blog or that - such as trying out the Soul Grinders in our last local tournament - but most of it is working out strategies for 'wanna-win' games.  Not that I'm throwing games, but I'm not so invested that I care whether I win or lose.

The Client Pimp..?  He's in a different place.  I'd wager he knows exactly how many games he's won or lost, against whom, and if those were inside a tournament or not!

It's a phase; most of us have been there.  For my part, I no longer have anything to prove.  Frankly, it's the same for most of us at the FLGS...

...sadly, we're most of us firmly in middle age!

(Speak for yourself.)

All that said, that habit of mine has bitten me in the butt on more than one occasion, where I was sort of lackadaisical with a tournament list and was frustrated after getting blown off the board.  On one occasion, the Bugs! were swept by Evil Homer in Exile's Dark Eldar with nary a fight.  On another, more recently, I suffered through a last round matchup against Little Barrera.

And his Dark Eldar.  

* * * 

My thinking on this almost exactly matches Hulk's; check out this post from They Shall Know Know Fear.  He's also exploring Daemons at the moment, just like me and just like Goatboy.   Remember to check out the other blogs in the Read Up To Keep Up roll!

* * * 

"I'm not a fan... but..!"  So ol' Kairos the Fateweaver doesn't pass my primary test for tournament-list inclusion.  He's simply not reliable...

...over four games!  He can be incredible; of that, there's no doubt.  The Fate-Crusher build is rightly feared; if Kairos and the Crushers get the appropriate wave on the board, and if Kairos avoids too many leadership tests, then certainly this is a combo that can roll the board with anyone!

Lot of 'ifs' though.

From Wargamer Hub


In one-third of the games you won't get the Wave you want.  In four games, you have a very strong chance of losing Kairos to a failed Leadership test - and I've had Darkwynn actually run the math on that one!

But!  As a Codex gets older it requires aggressive play, sound strategy, sharp tactics, and a perfectly optimized army list to seize victory for itself.

More than anything, though, you'll need aggressive play:  take the initiative early and force your opponent to play the game on different terms!

As much as it pains me to say this, Kairos can be a route to all of this, making him - in my humble opinion - a more valid choice now than even a year or two ago.  Back then, balance and sharp play yielded better results.  Some of those tools are just no longer available.

(Bye-bye, Daemon Prince of Tzeentch!  I loved you long time I did!)



* * * 

Let's explore a list; is there something else beyond the Standard Fate-Crusher?  A Hybrid Build?


I'll leave it to you to decide whether this is an effective option or not, but personally I prefer it to the current Fate-Crusher ideal of three units of Juggernauts - largely due to the speed of the Fiends and their ability to nail down units from a distance and destroy multiple tanks on the charge.

I prefer the cheaper Herald in the Daemons 2012 list I developed - and will publish tomorrow - but the Skulltaker is almost a design requirement here.

Why?

Think anti-GK's and you'll follow the train of thought.  Dark Excommunication removes Gifts, but the Skulltaker's Rending isn't one, meaning even if he loses his Power Weapon he can still rend out Grey Knights with a 4+.  With less in our toolbox, he's more important in this build.

That's the thought, anyway.  I'd probably drop Skulltaker with the Hounds and the Herald of Khorne with the Crushers, but you can certainly double-up either way if the table dictates it.

Thoughts?

6 comments:

Krisken said...

This is fairly close to the list I currently run for Daemons (if I play them at all). I think you are spot on with the two units of Fiends and 1 unit of Bloodcrushers.

I'm not a big fan of Skulltaker as he seems like a 'win more' option. For his cost on a Juggernaut I can get 5 unkitted out Bloodcrushers (same with the Herald of Khorn).

Most of the time I run either Tz Heralds on discs for more Bolts (to use on light tanks) and some Screamers just in case you run into AV 14.

The Hounds are a great addition as well considering GK's.

Still, I like what you are trying here and can't wait to see how it turns out.

Krisken of Scratchbuilt 40k

Brent said...

I tend to agree for the most part; tomorrow's post has the list I developed for 2012, but the Skulltaker isn't included.

Thanks for signing off the way you did; knowing you had a blog made me wanna backtrack you.

Okay, that sounded vaguely dirty. Regardless, I just finished updating my blog rolls so I got you added to the Bloggers Who Blog roll.

(For what that's worth!)

:)

Black Blow Fly said...

I would keep the Skulktaker... He always worked wonders for me and like you pointed out he can mawl Paladins... That's something for sure.

I see you're having some problems dealing with dark eldar - they have always been a problem for daemons with their speed and even more so now with those poisoned weapons. I see Soul Grinders as providing some help actually and they always worked well for me... Rock-Paper-Scissors for sure .

Brian said...

Food for a competitive noob's thought process. Though it may seem obvious to most (or not, perhaps), you have certainly helped frame my thinking with the four-games-consistency disposition. I like it. I need to understand it.

Krisken said...

::smacks forehead:: Not discs, chariots. Egads!

I'm glad you found my site to your liking and added it to Blogger's Who Blog roll. I've been amazed what a little extra promotion can do to the sites traffic.

Anyways, enough of that stuff! I look forward to tomorrow's post and the conclusions you have come to for Daemons.

Krisken of Scratchbuilt 40k

SinSynn said...

Nice to see you pull yerself offa Skyrim....
:P

(A new favorite!) Anon: I haven’t even bothered playing a game of 6th yet, cause I have read the rules, and actually understand how they interact with units. I know my armies no longer function how they should, and so I need to change them.

Strictly Average: 'cause 6-inches is all you get.

Stalking Jawaballs since 2009.

Jawaballs: "My butt just tightened up."

Brent, preferred 2-to-1 over Not Brent in a recent, scientific poll.

Brent: emptied the Kool Aid and DRINKING YOUR MILKSHAKE with an extra-long straw.

Unicorns don't exist.

Home of the Stormbuster, the Dyson Pattern Storm Raven.

I'm a comment whore and this whore is getting no play.

Not Brent hurts Brent's feelings.

I think, therefore I blog.

"You should stop writing for everyone else and worry about your crappy blog." - Anon.

Not Brent has been spotted lurking around with a green marker.

He's not like a bad guy from a cartoon, all devious but never quite evil, Not Brent is bad beans, man, bad beans.

Dethtron: "Again I feel obliged to remind you that trying to sound smart only works if you are."

MVB: "I am not one to join the unwashed masses of self-titled 40k experts out there distributing advice from their blogs about exactly how your list should be built..."

Shiner Bock on tap: that's how I choose hotels.

Strictly Average: The Home of Hugs and Gropings.

Don't feed the trolls!

MoD: "Welcome to Brent's head."

Competitive is Consistent.

Dethtron: "...you could use that extra time to figure out a way to get your panties unbunched and perform a sandectomy on your vagina."

Dethtron: “When calling someone an idiot, it's generally best to avoid making grammatical mistakes.”

Warboss Stalin: "You know, if it actually WAS funny, maybe I wouldn't mind."

Mike Brandt: "It's not a successful bachelor party if you don't misplace someone".

"The Master Manipulator (every store needs one): "...now, enough stroking."

Kirby: "I don't know about gropings. Seriously, Brent, keep it in the pants, please."

Loquacious: "No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get Hugs & Gropings or Stalks Jawaballs into Brent's little tribute."

Captain Kellen: "I rate this article a Brent on the Faith Hill to Nancy Pelosi scale!"

Drathmere: "Come for the balls, stay for the Brent? Kind of disturbing, man."

Go no further, lest thee see something thine eyes would fain look past!

Isabelle: "So, thank you for supporting your local and not so local unicorns. A noble gesture like that can show some scared kids out there that they don't have to hide from everyone and it's ok to be who they really are."

There is nothing more interesting than We The People... in all our beautiful, ugly glory!

On Internet Advice: You see, I have an almost religious belief that's it's a huge, colossal waste of time.

...I think I'll call it the Gun Shy Pattern Stormbuster, because after the Internet destroyed my first humble effort, I find I'm a bit worried about the reaction to this one.

Lauby: "Is it left over from that time you thought that you could just complete step one 12 times to meet the mandates of that court order?"

Not Brent: "I guess we'll have to read on and find out. Signed, Not Brent. Especially today."

Cynthia Davis: "I think the scrolling text is from Glen Beck's new book."

Grimaldi: "Spamming certain units creates interesting possibilities but also fatal weaknesses."

Purgatus: "Math can inform decisions. It cannot make decisions."

Thoughts? Comments? Hugs and gropings?

You'd be that much quicker to figure out what I mean when I refer to a Unicorn if I covered it in a rainbow flag.

SinSynn: (To Brent) "Curse you and your insidious influence on the internets..."

Dave G (N++): "You know you're an internet celebrity when your following is more akin to tabloids."

I prefer the term Internet Personality (or IP) myself, seeing as how I coined it.

Lauby: "Your attempt to humanize him as failed. I feel nothing but scorn for his beard - it's like a warcrime or something."

BBF: "I've always thought you are a good player but I finally figured out that you are a great player. It's hard to see sometimes because your personality is engaging, sincere and quite charming - to me that is kind of a rare combination."

'Clearly cheating?' I didn't misspeak: you jumped to conclusions. If you'd like to apologize I'll be happy to send you an autographed picture of my ass.

Ass.

I thought I was doing alright before I realized I was losing.

Age and treachery beats youth and vigor every time.

Popular Posts